If you are reading this, chances are that you take some interest in women’s rights issues. But have you ever thought of setting out on a journey around the world to assess and report the conditions in which women live in the Middle East, in Asia and in Central America? Well, this is exactly what Johanna Higgs does. Johanna is an Australian anthropologist, activist, and world adventurer. When I had the chance to interview her via Skype she was heading to Tajikistan for her researches for Project MonMa, the charity she founded in 2013 to raise awareness about violence against women.
Let’s start from the very beginning. What is Project MonMa and where did your passion for women’s rights come from?
When I was 19 I started travelling and I witnessed many injustices and discriminations perpetrated against women and girls everywhere I went. I started asking questions and the answers I received were terrible. So, I decided to continue travelling and after a while founded Project MonMa to raise awareness and try to change the perception of woman I was hearing again and again: that of second-class citizen and object, especially sexual object. At first, I travelled to Indonesia, India, and Ethiopia and I used to think: “It’s just India, you know, it’s not the world”. But then I went to Central America. Then I travelled to Argentina, and so on. It is just so widespread.
In an article you stated that the aim of Project MonMa is “to show that violence and discrimination is a global problem and is not confined to certain countries, religions or cultures and it is therefore everyone’s problem”. So do you think it is a men’s problem as well?
Of course, it is everyone’s problem and therefore a men’s problem as well. In my opinion, there are men who realize the extent of the problem but there are also men who don’t realize how bad the situation is and don’t even care about it.
Should we raise more awareness on the fact that they should be joining us to make a change?
Absolutely, this is something to do. I think the only way for that to happen is discussion: in order to let them understand we have to increase the discussion through campaigns, talks on the radio, on the TV. We need to make this public. This is the main way to shift the cultural norms that we have at the moment. Then, we also need to implement harsher punishments for perpetrators and harassers.
According to what you wrote: “There has not been a single part of the world that I have been to, where violence and discrimination against women and girls is not a serious problem”. Why did you choose to conceive the problem of violence against women as a global issue instead of tackling the issue on a local scale?
I think that in this way fighting the phenomenon of violence against women is more effective: people need to see this differently. If people hear that this is happening in Argentina, in Iraq, and so on, they will understand that this is not just happening in a little corner of the world and it is not a marginal problem. On the contrary, this is global. It is happening everywhere and is therefore a global phenomenon and we need to treat it as such.
Which is the worst and best situation you have witnessed around the world as far as women’s rights are concerned?
Violence and discrimination are happening globally but clearly on different levels and in different ways. I think the worst situation I witnessed was in Northern Iraq, because the cultural tradition is just so bad for women there in terms of restrictions, violence, and lack of education. I think the best was in Scandinavia.
I would like to move to victim blaming. I read an enlightening quote of yours: “If you harass a woman, it’s your fault. Nobody made you do it, you are in control of your own behavior.” In Italy, it’s not rare at all to hear comments made by journalists and politicians blaming the victim of sexual assaults. Why do we still live in a society that is teaching women not to be raped and not teaching men not to rape?
What happened in Italy is horrible and it is no different from what is going on in other places all around the world. The reason why we still allow this system based on victim blaming to go on is because we need an excuse to allow male sexual freedom. Rape as a structural violence is a concept which is so entrenched and imbedded in our mind that at times women can’t even see the violence perpetrated against them. In some cultures, for instance, slaves were often perpetrated against such deep violence that they convinced themselves they deserved to be enslaved. The misogynist and patriarchal society we live in may be working in the same way for women who have been raped. We need to continue denounce the situation and complain about what is happening, it doesn’t matter how many times we are critized for that. I receive so many criticisms for speaking up against rape and perpetrators of violence against women, but we desperately need to keep going.
What do you think it is that makes violent men want to dominate?
This is an interesting question because we started a survey at Project MonMa to try and understand just that. Because we need to find out why this is happening. The survey is called Male attitudes to violence against women and it is conceived for men to answer.
What is the aim of the project? What do you want to prove or to find out through this data collection? [The survey includes questions like “how would you define sexual harassment?” and “do you think domestic violence should be dealt with privately?” A/N]
Unfortunately, there is little research about this. We think that only by making the perpetrators answer directly, making them think why they behave in a certain way, generate knowledge on the issue can we understand why this is happening that so many men behave violently towards women and perceive them as worthy of less value than them.
Do you think perpetrators would take the time to answer honestly these questions?
We clearly hope they will, but we don’t know for certain. I know a lot of men, which I met (especially in Morocco), that are not at all ashamed of sexual harassment because there it is considered normal and even expected from men. So, they would not have a single problem writing or saying that the reason why they behave in a certain way is that women are inferior. But in other countries and cultures, we don’t know of course how honest the answers may be.
What does feminism mean to you?
Feminism is a struggle to bring equality between men and women and to allow both men and women to have sexual rights, sexual freedom and to be free from violence, harassment and from some kinds of unwanted behaviours.
Do you think men should be feminist?
Absolutely. If a man is not feminist it means that he believes in violence and discrimination against women. If a man is not a feminist, it means that something is wrong with him.
What is the perception of feminism around the globe, according to your experience?
Feminism is spreading more and more as a concept in the U.S. and in Australia, but it is also emerging in other parts of the world. In some places, however, the idea of feminism is not even allowed, for example in the Middle East. Once I was in a taxi in Lebanon and the driver complained about the political situation of the country, so I just innocently suggested that maybe they needed more women in politics. He was outraged. Later, I reported what had happened to another group of men and they agreed I could have serious problems for hinting openly at something like that. It’s like you have a strong wind going against it, and it all stems from the same idea: women are less valuable than men.
Who is your biggest mentor and source of inspiration?
I have many, but the one I admire the most is Ayan Hirsi Ali. When an extremist group arrived to her village in Somalia she was forced to marry a Canadian man asking for a wife who would give him 6 sons, and she was then sent to Germany. However, she managed to flee and sought asylum in the Netherlands, which she was granted, mentioning forced marriage as a reason. She became a lawmaker, abandoned Islam and produced the short movie Submission harshly criticizing abuses against women in the Muslim world. The filmmaker was murdered and she has been living with a police escort since then. I admire her bravery, her courage, the fact that she never gives up even if she lives under constant death threats. She fights for women’s rights and she keeps going no matter what.
Considered every country you have visited and every person you have met: how optimistic are you that we are sooner or later going to reach gender equality?
I am absolutely optimistic we will reach gender equality, because I see it happening in some parts of the world. Even the way women live in Australia, where there is still some form of misogyny, is inconceivable to women living in other countries. There is a community in China where almost everyone would tell you men and women are treated as equal, there is no violence and both sexes can benefit from sexual freedom. But also, in Algeria, I visited a refugee camp and there as well the situation was generally good as far as gender equality is concerned. If a man beat his wife, she could freely decide to divorce him and the refugees would tell me that no other woman would then choose to remarry him for what he had done. Still, the main figures in power were men, but when I asked how could they live in such harmony respecting gender equality, the reply was: “Because this is what Islam teaches us, that men and women are equal”. So, coming back to your question: I am very optimistic we will sooner or later reach gender equality but it will only happen if we make it happen, and women need to fight harder because men are not just letting them have it.
Let’s do this. Together.
